(Anyways, yeah, I’m still pissed off at you as a person. I think it was very rotten and sinister to pretend to be an open-minded human being with no intention of trying to do anything but knock people down and serve what you perceive to be oppressive authority. Some people’s brains are just wired that way. But, aside from that, I do feel the need to discuss another growing problem:)
What I’m noticing from the New Atheist movement is a hatred for religion not stemming from a love for truth, but as a biological tactic to serve power. Obviously, everyone can agree that pathological willingness to serve imperialistic power is a trait that is naturally selected for, and, thus, many are willing to do it.
The New Atheist movement is becoming dangerous. It’s no longer trying to check religious bigotry as much as just trying to maintain state dogma.
Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Bill Maher are all perfect examples. Their demonization of Muslims no longer has anything to do with real logic or reason. It’s now just a tactic to dehumanise a group of people whose resources are desired by the imperialistic power. Obviously, New Atheism upholds science above all else. But this is no longer because science has truths associated with it. This is just because science/technology creates weapons and willingness to serve the military-industrial complex gets one ahead in the game over others, but in an extremely unfair way. It’s a type of biological cheating (and, no, cheating is not okay. For example, telling people to work on “reading comprehension” or “critical thinking” if they disagree with you – not out of truth, but to pretend you’re at a higher level others need to approach.)
Sam Harris has gone as far as supporting the genocide in Gaza. He pretends it’s because of the threat of Islam despite all New Atheists saying Islamic civilization has poor science and is an “abysmal failure.” How can they be such undeveloped “savages” and such a huge threat at the same time? He victim-blames and diverts blame by referring to the men/women/children being bombed as human shields. He pretends Hamas started the conflict when Israel was the initiator so he can pretend it was self-defence. And, apparently, this is okay because there are so many Muslims in the world and they are so dangerous (as if India with its greater population was a huge threat to Britain during the era of the British Raj.). No matter a person’s faith, they don’t deserve to be murdered for it. The fact New Atheism is supporting murder based on religious belief makes them no different from the religious fanatics they abhor. In some ways, people like Harris are even worse, because his state-dogma-inspired fanaticism not only supports mass murder based on one’s religious affiliation, he does it to serve forces that only want to take the land and/or resources of others.
(I’ve also noticed no New Atheists speaking out against the support for Israel and genocide against Palestinians for pure religious reasons which they should technically oppose. They don’t rebuke the Christian-motivated support for Israel or Jewish faith-based discrimination against Muslims.)
So perhaps speak out against blind faith in American exceptionalism, blind support for Israel and Western imperialism, and the baseless assumption that the Western states are inherently good guys despite clear evidence against such things.
I have posted about how belief in American exceptionalism is unfounded. And I have posted about how imperialism is basically stupid. I’ve posted many times about government corruption. I don’t really care for Dawkins or Harris, and I’ve said that in other posts on other blogs.
So I don’t like religion. That doesn’t make me an oppressive person. Never once have I argued that people shouldn’t be allowed to value or believe whatever they want. Never once have I advocated that we should strip everyone of their religion. Never once have I ever advocated for any law or piece of legislation that would in any way compromise freedom of religion. Just because a person doesn’t like something doesn’t make them an oppressive bigot, as you seem to be claiming.
With regard to religion and violence or terrorism. I think it is very difficult to determine whether religion truly inspires acts of violence. But what we do see often is that religion is the justification for violence. The root cause of the violence may not be spiritual, but the violence itself is rationalized and sold using religion.
I’m not sure if I’ve met an atheist who hates religion just to hate religion or as a biological tactic to serve power. I’ve heard from most prominent atheists say that they want people to have the freedom to practice whatever religion they want to, but come to atheism eventually, and it’s okay if they don’t. Most of us really just want to see religious influence in laws go away, which would give equality for everyone. Don’t favor the christians, muslims, jews, or even atheists. Favor no one over anyone else.
I’ve never listened to anything of Harris or Dawkins, and I’ve never personally heard Maher say anything on Muslims (I’m really not much of a fan of TV, and I don’t like what I’ve seen of Maher), but I don’t know many atheists who’re in favor of having every weapon under the sun. I’m okay with guns and whatnot, but I think the government should focus a lot more on education than military. And most of the atheists I’ve heard agree with that to some extent.
I really don’t see how any of this is a form of biological cheating. Even if what you’re saying is true, I don’t see it as biological cheating. It’s not like much of the government is listening to us, so it’s more like cheating on a practice test, if anything.
Who out there with a brain thinks that America is at the pinnacle of awesomeness? I think everyone I know disagrees with something the government’s doing in one way or another, even ignoring the stupid shit like Obama being elected on the base that “it’s called the white house for a reason.” We’re not the best out there, but we’re not the worst.
The anti-atheism propaganda machine does an excellent job, doesn’t it?
Ehh, I usually don’t care much about it. There’s a point where it does become irrelevant, and is mostly up to PR to fix. If someone’s met 10 atheists who don’t fit with the anti propaganda, they won’t believe it anymore. People don’t recognize a huge number of other humans as people, and the number’s about 120. The fact that group A is against group B isn’t as important when people know that group B isn’t as bad as group A makes it out to be, as long as the person listening isn’t bias to A or B.
J.S. —> Clearly one should be able to demonstrate logic before they claim whether or not an argument is logical? By claiming there is no logic argument without an an a+b (and sometimes c) refutation assumes that you just know you are correct in your position without offering any indication that logic has been applied.
rly1987—> Aside from your personal views of our host, you have some serious flaws in your thinking. What the hell is a “biological tactic?” From what I can see you are trying to impose the authoritarian mindset to the atheist community. Perhaps you should read up on the authoritarian mindset. Hint, it rarely manifests itself in atheists.
State dogma? BZZZZT! Thanks for playing, but state dogma is non existant save for religious circles.
Clearly a sour view of the Muslim community has nothing to do with terrorists running rampant, imposing strict Sharia law, carrying out brutal punishments and beheadings, and attempted genocides. As well as just generally blowing shit up. yeah, I am sure it has nothing to do with all of that stuff, it is just that they are misunderstood. /end sarcasm.
Israel and Palestine, I have no hope of peace between the two. I would also be forced to admit we are not necessarily the good guys either. I do not support either side, but I do recognize the need to defend ones country from attack. There is no winner in this conflict until attitudes change on both sides. Which as I said, there is no hope of peace between them, maybe when all there is left on both sides is 20 survivors amidst the rubble, peace will be found. Until then there is too much hate to seek peace. From whence does this hate dwell? Religion.
Eliminate religion from the problem and the issue would resolve itself.
Well said, sir!
Butbutbut… All religions are just the same God, but just putting different opinions on him!
Sarcasm aside, this line of reasoning is what starts turning them to Atheism. If they didn’t think much about religion at all until their later years, anyway. Kind of funny, in my opinion.
This is true. Of course, objectively analyzing the religion that you’ve been indoctrinated into isn’t exactly the best way to determine whether the religion is true or false. It is also a lucky coincidence that when Hindus have spiritual visions they see their Gods, Catholics see saints, and Christians see Jesus. Sort of makes it hard to be really objective.
The other possibility of course is that there is no real God and that all such visions are hallucinations. People can hallucinate for all sorts of reasons. Hunger, prescription medications that aren’t mixing well, it could be just plain exhaustion and being sleep deprived that isn’t intentional, dehydration, suddenly stopping drinking after a binge, Vitamin B1 deficiency, hypoglycemia, migraines, caffeine overdose, low blood sodium, primary cerebral lymphoma, epilepsy, schizophrenia, psychosis, dementia, and a host of other brain disorders. Many of these things may be happening to a person without them being aware. The possibility also exists that there is no real God and that all such visions are hallucinations.
I wouldn’t say there is no doubt. Muslims doubt it. And Jews doubt it too. Given they are the ones who made the old testament it seems like if they don’t think the prophecy was fulfilled then that seems like a relevant perspective. The problem is that it is all a matter of belief. Belief in something does not make it so.
This is a pretty good site for explaining. Most of what I read also quotes bible verses from the old testament describing what the Messiah is and will do, and Jesus did not fulfill that. http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewsandjesus/#1
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